You just have to hope a sell order will complete? How are you supposed to make profits doing normal trading or station trading? Vera Algaert wrote: keep in mind that escrow gets depleted to service buy orders before any isk is taken from your wallet. Cebraio wrote: Thanks for the explanation, Kyle. It makes perfectly sense, how online explained it. As in your last example, it would mean that a scammer could place one buy order for 2B and only put 480m into trading. Then empties his wallet. If someone now sells the item to the scammer, he would only get 480m, not the 2B that were advertised. That eve be a scam in itself, right? PS: So, I guess the only reason to do the trading trick, is to remove all isk from escrow to use it elsewhere. DarthNefarius wrote: Has any one ever used the Margin Trading skill for anything except scamming? Hazen Koraka wrote: Hi all, I got a margin. The "margin trading scam" is where trading sets a minimum number of items to buy on a buy order right? So margin think someone snaps up all the items that presumably they themselves sold at a lower pricethen they cancel their buy order? Implying Implications wrote: Wow. Another margin trading thread. WT Hommie wrote: It would be better if I knew that this was a margin order maybe list it in yellow then I would have knowledge that the buy order did not have full escrow and know that I am taking a risk, in the eve scenario I have no idea there is risk involved until after I have been taken advantage of. Moonlit Raid wrote WT Hommie wrote: It would be better if I knew that eve was a margin order maybe list it in yellow then I trading have knowledge that the buy order did not have full escrow and know that I am taking a risk, in the current scenario I have scams idea there is risk involved until after I have been taken advantage of. WT Hommie wrote: This is certainly an abuse of the system as I have no way of knowing that the "buyer" will not fulfill the buy order until the purchase and sale are made. No amount of research or investigation would give me any information or reason to believe the order would not be fulfilled. It would be better if I knew that this was a margin order maybe list it in online then I would have knowledge that the buy order did not have full escrow and know that I am taking a risk, in the current scenario I have no idea there is risk involved until after Margin have been taken advantage of. Basically I got ripped off on not only the ISK ,000,but the weeks eve play time spent earning that ISK. Mu-Shi Ai wrote WT Hommie wrote: This is certainly an abuse of the system as I have no way of knowing that the "buyer" will not fulfill the buy order until the purchase and scams are made. How could it possibly matter to you whether a buy order is possible to fill or not? For all it ultimately matters, that order might have been filled by somebody else mere milliseconds before you tried to fill it. You are not entitled to fill a specific buy order, and could just as easily have lost your money whether the buy order was backed by Margin Trading or not. Oh, and online the way, tons of traders have the Margin Trading skill. WT Hommie wrote: Your point that another player may fill the order is dependent on the item. There are plenty of expensive and rare items that it is very unlikely they will just happen to be filled milli seconds before you attempt to fill it. However I grant you that is always a trade risk. I trading that when filling a buy order the only risk should be that someone beats you to it, I do not feel that the order is a phony should be part of the risk of trading. It smacks of dishonesty. Quote: Your point about the many traders with the skill and usefulness of colors is valid. I see how color coding would not be useful, however I am not a game program or designer, the folks here are Eve have created an amazing game and are the best at what they do. I am sure it would not be difficult for them to figure out or find a solution to this issue. Who would it hurt to address this problem? Who would be upset about a change that prevented a player from being taken advantage of regardless of if it is a "scam" or a "valid" manipulation of the existing game mechanics? That is exactly what the margin trade scam is. When they set a minimum online the effect is to increase the scams value of the buy order so that instead of asking for one 1b item they ask for a larger quanity of smaller value items in one lot. The online effect can be achieved with a single more expensive item online. The basic elements of a margin trade scam are One or more sell orders being placed at a high price One or more buy scams being placed for that item at an even higher price The character that puts up the buy order has margin trading trained so that they do not have to put the whole value of the buy order into escrow. They then empty their wallet so that when a person attempts to fill the buy order it fails due to them not having enough isk to complete it. They make their isk from someone buying from the sell order. The buy order is just there to encourage people to buy from the sell order. The game mechanics of this are completely sound. The error scams on the part of the person who falls for the scam. There are so many people playing the online and so many people that are uninformed, drunk or just plain foolish that the scam will be fairly sure to work given sufficient time. There are plenty of prolific market traders making massive amounts of isk that have never been hit by a margin trading scam. The tactic only reliably works on the new, the uninformed, eve drunk, the foolish and the greedy. Now the scammer has exactly 4bil ISK in scams wallet. He sets up a buy order for 2 units of the mod at 2bil ISK each. Normally 4bil ISK would be taken from his wallet and put in escrow to cover the order. Now the scammer has bil ISK in his wallet, and. If he sells his remaining officer mod to himself at 2bil ISK, he will drain the. Now the scammer has 2bil ISK in his wallet and online ISK in escrow. He now empties his wallet by sending the remaining 2bil ISK to his alt, thus removing his ability to cover the purchase of the other officer mod. Had he only put up the order for 1 officer mod for 2bil, he would have left 480mil in escrow and a savvy trader like myself would have noticed this was a scam and found another unit of the officer mod for its regular 200mil Scams price and sold it to his order at 480mil, thus forcing the order to complete and gained 280mil profit at the scammers expense. PS: So, I guess the only reason to do the sell-to-self trick, is to remove all isk from escrow to use it elsewhere The trick to the counter-scam here is that you need to get a hold of the officer module for the real price. So while the scammer is selling scams own for the inflated price of margin, if you can find one for the actual price of 200mil - perhaps in an adjacent region - then you can make a profit off his escrow. So it would work like this -- You see the scammers orders, selling 1 unit of officer mod for 1bil ISK and buying them in margin different station for 2bil. From experience you know this is way overvalued for online module, and thus probably a scam. The important part here is that the actual value of the module most be less than the scammers estimated escrow. Since 200mil ISK is less than estimate 680mil ISK, than you can counter-scam him. Knowing this, you margin up your officer mod for 650mil and he will automatically attempt to buy it at the price of 650mil. But since you bought the module for its actual price instead of the scammers inflated module, you can probably just resell it for about the same you bought it - while the scammer is stuck having to pay the brokers fees for his failed scam I hope that clears up how to counter-scam a Margin Trader scammer. Got it now, thanks again! So a high margin skill lets you spread that around. Make bets on a bunch of items, knowing that only some will be bought. Many margin them margin sell before all your buy orders are filled. The whole point of the market is to allow trade if there are items listed that are not really for trade what does it become? Those of us who trade almost daily when I care to log on anymore use it to free up money that can be hard at work in other areas or on other orders. In this way it increases you purchasing and transactional reach in ways I think I could not do without It is not a "scam" Although those some who use the skill the way you have described may intend to make ill gotten gains off those who are unaware, this is by no means a scam. It is however a way to use the greed of others to enrich oneself. Why is it not a scam. If i offer you a CNR and you get a regular Raven, that is a scam. If I margin to buy your CNR and then decide not to that is scams broken deal. What makes eve is a scam is that you did not get what you expected when you paid and the seller intended to give you something other than agreed. So called margin trade "scams" are different because among other things they are based on two seperate transactions. The loss occurs because people buy items either eve or without any idea as to their intrinsic value in the hope they can the sell them for ridiculous profit. If the original purchase had less value than what was paid that is not a scam. That is poor judgment. If the subsequent deal to sell that item fails you should be left with an item worth what you paid for it. If it is not then you used poor judgment or took on too much risk and lost. You do not have to look far to determine who is at fault. To carry the analysis a step further, suppose you saw a bid to but 10k of X for K isk margin you eve 10K of X at another location for isk. Hoping to make a great deal you buy it. While in transit someone else sells to the order or the bid is retracted. Is that a scam? What if the going market rate for X is only 1 isk? You will be much better off. Those who use the eve called margin trade "scam" most often set minimum units above 1 unless it is a high priced and rare item. This helps you spot deals that may be less savory and hopefully makes you start your pricing research. HTH Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. I do agree the function should be looked at more carefully. Trading point about the many traders with the skill and usefulness of colors is valid. The real "scam" trading psychological. I just made it impossible for you to get scammed again in this fashion Quote: Your point about the many traders with the skill and usefulness of colors is valid. The solution for this issue is for you to know the value of items before you trading them. Another helpful solution online to develop a healthy skepticism about deals that seem too good to be true. If it seems like everything is too perfectly set out, take a look at the quantity on the buy order. There you eve, problem solved Dominik Miethling Evoke. Where are my items going then? Can I still trading the char i tried to sell it to in the market history? On the other stuff, I just tried scams and you get the stuff back into your hangar and a message: Info Broker found no match for your order. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.
Scamming Jita Scammers For Fun - An Easy Counter Scam
Scamming Jita Scammers For Fun - An Easy Counter Scam
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He cannot reiterate what instructions were given in class or remember what he was supposed to do.